Torso T1: MIDI Clock sync problem with USB MIDI

[starfish]

I have an Elektron Syntakt connected via 5-pin MIDI to MRCC and a Torso T1 connected via USB MIDI. I want to use Syntakt as tempo leader and the T1 as follower. 

When I send the Syntakt MIDI Clock/Transport via MRCC to the T1 (USB) MIDI In, the T1 starts to play when I start the Syntakt, but the T1 Play and Step LEDs are flickering and tempo is way off. Looks like the T1 is being started and stopped at a high frequency.

When I send the MIDI Clock from the Syntakt to the TRS MIDI In of the T1, sync works perfectly. Also T1 users report that they are using tempo following via MIDI USB in other configurations without any issues.

That means that MRCC's USB MIDI implementation causes this problem with the T1.
Any ideas? I filtered all data types apart from Clock and Start/Stop in MRCC but that didn't help.

[Jesse Johannesen]

Oh how annoying, but it's really no surprise as none of the other Elektron boxes are compatible with the MRCC via USB port. I'm actually a little surprised that it works at all. We're going to be looking into this issue in the future and working to make more devices compatible but for now you will probably need to use the DIN port if you want to ensure proper sync behavior. Here's a link to the compatibility tracker for reference:
https://conductivelabs.com/mrcc-usb-host...y-tracker/

If you want to do some debugging, you can you use the built in MIDI monitor to check what data is being routed? To do this effectively you'll want to set things up so that the only thing sending MIDI is the Syntakt, and it's only sending to the torso, then turn the tempo down very low on the syntakt. In the monitor tool, you'll need to "unpause" the activity monitor to get things rolling. If you press play on the Syntakt, it should show a single event labeled with a number and followed by RT (for real time, as in start stop continue messages) and maybe something after on the same line. If there are multiple RT events coming up in the monitor then that would indicate the MRCC is passing extra Play messages maybe, but it seems unlikely.

I don't think clock messages show up in the monitor, but they do show up as red triangles in the routing page when no other MIDI data is being sent, however there is no way in the device to get a count of how many are being sent.

I would recommend using a MIDI monitor like MIDI Ox for the PC, or if you're on a Mac you'll have to do a google search to see what the best option is, but once you open it you can monitor the output of the MRCC and see if there is any difference between the output of the Syntakt when connected via USB, or 5pin DIN when routed to the PC port. If there's something different coming out then we can try and figure out why.

Other than that I would say try connecting it via DIN ports and it should work perfectly.

If you want to talk through the process you can send me an email at Support@conductivelabs.com and we can set up a zoom chat.

Jesse

[starfish]

Hi Jesse,

if you take a look at my first sentence: "I have an Elektron Syntakt connected via 5-pin MIDI to MRCC..."
It's the Torso T1 which is connected via USB, not the Syntakt.

So far every single device that I tried to connect via USB to the MRCC didn't work. I think I skip the entire USB MIDI idea for now and connect everything via 5-pin MIDI.

[oldgearguy]

Hi Jesse,

if you take a look at my first sentence: "I have an Elektron Syntakt connected via 5-pin MIDI to MRCC..."
It's the Torso T1 which is connected via USB, not the Syntakt.

So far every single device that I tried to connect via USB to the MRCC didn't work. I think I skip the entire USB MIDI idea for now and connect everything via 5-pin MIDI.

Have you updated the MRCC to the latest (1.1.052) OS?
If you do, I know for a fact the Prophet 10 rev4 works just fine over USB.  It's likely that others will as well with the latest OS installed.

[Jesse Johannesen]

Oh Man, my mistake. I read that before I had finished my first cup of coffee. I apologize for the confusion.

I like Tom's idea, but I don't think the issue will be addressed with the update, since it doesn't seem to be an issue with enumeration at powerup, but some other thing (since notes trigger). I would still try the update, but it's kind of a long shot. I don't have a torso T1 here to test with but I could try and see if I can send my Digitakt MIDI out over USB, as well as out the DIN port and see if there is any difference, but I would have to go get it back from my friends place, so it may be next week before I get a chance.

My personal philosophy with debugging any MIDI related issues of my own gear is to debug only until I find a way that it works, because it's possible to waste way too much time trying to get things set up perfectly, when getting it working can often happen much faster. In this case if it works one way (DIN to DIN) I'd just go with it that wa, you'll find something that works perfectly with the USB down the road.

The offer still stands to set up a zoom call if you want to show me the issue, maybe seeing what's happening might give me some ideas, or even if you just sent me a video of the wild sync situation I could show the team. Steve might have a better idea than me.

Jesse

[starfish]

Hi Jesse,

thanks, no worries – and yes, I'm on the latest beta firmware 1.1.052.

I agree with your philosophy. That's why I'll just go with 5-pin MIDI for now. I would prefer USB MIDI for several reasons, but as you said: It takes too much time to debug things and trying it again with every new firmware version.

[ilmai]

I encountered the same thing. What's weird is that it worked better previously, in that it mostly worked but the tempo was out of sync with other gear. Something must have changed on either end... or both ends. Just using DIN MIDI for now as well, though ideally I would save on those ports. Maybe it's less of a problem when the USB DIN expander is released

[mrcolinjohnson]

Hey Folks, Im having the same issue described here. Midi clock over USB is erratic and unusable. I recorded a video of the issue. https://photos.app.goo.gl/biP1QKcSNq6HutRq9
This explains the issue. Im on the current firmware, and midi over 5 pin works fine. I can live with 5 pin for now, but it creates a space issue for me really lol. It would be great to get this fixed.

[Jesse Johannesen]

Yeah this is a known issue, I believe we've been in touch with the Torso Dev and I think shared what we suspect the issue is. I believe there was a fw update that solved some issues, but not this one as of yet.

[User]

Yeah this is a known issue, I believe we've been in touch with the Torso Dev and I think shared what we suspect the issue is. I believe there was a fw update that solved some issues, but not this one as of yet.

I am interested if this bug has already been explained or fixed? I'm going to use Torso too, and I would use USB too.