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Menu 4 Rhythm Editor for gate length
#1
Just received my NDLR and its a very well thought out machine.

For me the main thing missing is being able to change the note lengths with the Rhythm Editor to make the notes have different gate lengths.
This is the main thing missing that would make it able to have a lot of funky variation.  I really feel that this is an essential feature in any advanced arpeggiator and was surprised to find out it only does Legato.

My understanding from the brief scan I have done on the forums is that for some reason implementing a knob for gate length would be hard?

I was wondering is this due to just the layout of the front panel or something else deeper in the coding????


If its just the layout I have a simple and intuitive suggestion.

What I would suggest is having a second page on Shift Menu 4 and have the circles of the rhythm editor exactly the same as before but the lines from the DOT control gate length rather than velocity.  This could be implemented in % or have a deeper setting that quantizes to 1/4 note etc.


I use synths like the new WASP clone etc that have no midi CC and need note length as the ADSR is only ADS and will only output legato or not work.

My apology's if this is old ground as I am new to NDLR.

Thank you.
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#2
Its a fundamental limitation with the architecture of the code. The NDLR turns notes off only when there are new notes to turn on. There's no timer method for note gates, so it would be a significant rework of the code to get a gate length. We've been working on The NDLR code for a couple of years now, and this is something we would also like to have, but right now we are prioritizing bug fixes as we are heads down on new product development. Once the new product is launched we can circle around to see about getting some new features implemented.
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#3
Ahh that makes a lot of sense. I was wondering if it was at that level.

Oh well still a fantastic product and I will on some more sophisticated synths be able to use synced LFOs etc mapped to decay.
2 motif's to the one synth etc to get a bit of variation out of the lengths.
Let me know if you have any other tricks for changing the gate lengths.

Thank you for the clarity. I really appreciate the response.

On a side note I love how tight the midi timing is! Rock solid note delivery on my Pro 5!

Thank you for all your efforts.
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#4
(02-05-2020, 04:04 PM)Darryl Wrote: Its a fundamental limitation with the architecture of the code. The NDLR turns notes off only when there are new notes to turn on. There's no timer method for note gates, so it would be a significant rework of the code to get a gate length. We've been working on The NDLR code for a couple of years now, and this is something we would also like to have, but right now we are prioritizing bug fixes as we are heads down on new product development. Once the new product is launched we can circle around to see about getting some new features implemented.

This is quite frankly, a fairly significant problem. Every analog mono synth will have issues with this as the envelopes will not retrigger on each step which renders them useless with NDLR. If it isn't possible to make it editable, the default gate really shouldn't be 100%. 

James
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#5
(08-08-2020, 06:29 PM)james@ticalun.net Wrote:
(02-05-2020, 04:04 PM)Darryl Wrote: Its a fundamental limitation with the architecture of the code. The NDLR turns notes off only when there are new notes to turn on. There's no timer method for note gates, so it would be a significant rework of the code to get a gate length. We've been working on The NDLR code for a couple of years now, and this is something we would also like to have, but right now we are prioritizing bug fixes as we are heads down on new product development. Once the new product is launched we can circle around to see about getting some new features implemented.

This is quite frankly, a fairly significant problem. Every analog mono synth will have issues with this as the envelopes will not retrigger on each step which renders them useless with NDLR. If it isn't possible to make it editable, the default gate really shouldn't be 100%. 








James

Is there a way to implement slides by inverting the logic so that notes overlap (gate longer than 100%)?
I agree gates should be less than 100% in general, and I am wondering if that’s why I get so many hung notes when working w the NDLR?
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#6
(09-06-2020, 03:52 PM)shagghie Wrote:
(08-08-2020, 06:29 PM)james@ticalun.net Wrote:
(02-05-2020, 04:04 PM)Darryl Wrote: Its a fundamental limitation with the architecture of the code. The NDLR turns notes off only when there are new notes to turn on. There's no timer method for note gates, so it would be a significant rework of the code to get a gate length. We've been working on The NDLR code for a couple of years now, and this is something we would also like to have, but right now we are prioritizing bug fixes as we are heads down on new product development. Once the new product is launched we can circle around to see about getting some new features implemented.

This is quite frankly, a fairly significant problem. Every analog mono synth will have issues with this as the envelopes will not retrigger on each step which renders them useless with NDLR. If it isn't possible to make it editable, the default gate really shouldn't be 100%. 








James

Is there a way to implement slides by inverting the logic so that notes overlap (gate longer than 100%)?
I agree gates should be less than 100% in general, and I am wondering if that’s why I get so many hung notes when working w the NDLR?
Slides are not something you can do in MIDI. Its a function of changing control voltage in the sound module. Theoretically, one could simulate a slide in MIDI by sending a pitch bend, carefully calibrated from the starting note to the ending note. However, this would not work without some kind of calibration feature to match the target sound module pitch bend range, and many synths will drift as the temperature changes, which is why we didn't pursue the idea.

The NDLR MIDI output is MIDI spec, so there shouldn't be any stuck notes if the receiving device is processing the data correctly, but we've seen some cases where devices do not process MIDI consistently. VCV Rack is an example of being sensitive to MIDI note off to note on timing, but its allowed in MIDI so it should be fixable.
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#7
(08-08-2020, 06:29 PM)james@ticalun.net Wrote:
(02-05-2020, 04:04 PM)Darryl Wrote: Its a fundamental limitation with the architecture of the code. The NDLR turns notes off only when there are new notes to turn on. There's no timer method for note gates, so it would be a significant rework of the code to get a gate length. We've been working on The NDLR code for a couple of years now, and this is something we would also like to have, but right now we are prioritizing bug fixes as we are heads down on new product development. Once the new product is launched we can circle around to see about getting some new features implemented.

This is quite frankly, a fairly significant problem. Every analog mono synth will have issues with this as the envelopes will not retrigger on each step which renders them useless with NDLR. If it isn't possible to make it editable, the default gate really shouldn't be 100%. 

James
Hi James, there's a MIDI Note Off command before every new MIDI Note On. So I guess its 99.9% gate? Its a MIDI command, not a CV gate, so all gate means is how soon MIDI Note Off comes before the next Note On. It shouldn't matter to the synth if its MIDI implementation is correct.

Just FYI, though more efficient, we elected not to use Running Status, though it would have helped to reduce overall MIDI data load on the NDLR. Even running status should cause a retrigger, but we haven't tested how widely/correctly implemented it is on synth modules. Its possible some boutique modules don't implement it and would not retrigger with new note events of the same note, but this would violate MIDI spec.

We haven't heard of a problem with retriggering envelopes, but maybe nobody notices.
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#8
I think I must be missing something?

The Motif Rhythm has an adjustable gate length using 'ties' and 'rests' along with 'CLK DIV' (clock division).
Rhythms (32 steps) with division set to ÷8 gives you a bar of 4/4 with demisemiquaver (1/32th) gating resolution.
A crotchet is just 1 velocity and 7 ties. A quaver then a quaver rest is 1 velocity, 3 ties and 4 rests

Perhaps if we could combine Rhythms to make them longer would be nice, but you can also do that by sending a CC42 or CC50  from a looped DAW track (Live comes to mind, but I use a Reaper track).

Set up 2 Rhythms with division set to ÷4, so you now have two Rhythms of two bars of 4 each with semiquaver (16th) gating resolution.
Step edit insert at DAW bar1-note 1 a CC42 with the Rhythm number 21 (I use a User Rhythm, but we can talk about that later) and again at bar 2 for Motif1 ( CC50 for Motif2).

You can Midi clock them for sync (or as I like to do, no sync to phase the DAW against the NDLR).

Unfortunately the NDLR is no longer stand alone, but it works for me.
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#9
(09-10-2020, 09:13 PM)Royce Wrote: I think I must be missing something?

The Motif Rhythm has an adjustable gate length using 'ties' and 'rests' along with 'CLK DIV' (clock division).
Rhythms (32 steps) with division set to ÷8 gives you a bar of 4/4 with demisemiquaver (1/32th) gating resolution.
A crotchet is just 1 velocity and 7 ties. A quaver then a quaver rest is 1 velocity, 3 ties and 4 rests

Perhaps if we could combine Rhythms to make them longer would be nice, but you can also do that by sending a CC42 or CC50  from a looped DAW track (Live comes to mind, but I use a Reaper track).

Set up 2 Rhythms with division set to ÷4, so you now have two Rhythms of two bars of 4 each with semiquaver (16th) gating resolution.
Step edit insert at DAW bar1-note 1 a CC42 with the Rhythm number 21 (I use a User Rhythm, but we can talk about that later) and again at bar 2 for Motif1 ( CC50 for Motif2).

You can Midi clock them for sync (or as I like to do, no sync to phase the DAW against the NDLR).

Unfortunately the NDLR is no longer stand alone, but it works for me.
Very creative solution Royce. A little complicated, but you can simulate a gate with rhythms. I'd love to have a Gate length on a motif knob, but not sure we'll ever get that to happen.
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