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Touch Control Near Complete - CC Bugs
#1
Firmware 1.1.064 (Experimental Beta)

Hi I have finished my Touch Control Template for the Ndlr... 
I have found a couple of bugs  (possibly documentation errors) 

Daryl can you confirm for me please:

Pad Midi Channel Assignment CC 17 with a range of 1 to 16 should change the Channel Numbers only ... not the ports and has no impact on the channels.... It is changing the Ports. 
Pad Midi Port Assignment CC 19 is working but the range is 0 to 6 not 1 to 7 as mentioned in the Manual. 


Motif 1 Midi Channel Assignment cc 22 is changing the Ports not the Channels and corrupting the screen in the Motif 1 area - no channel control is available
Midi Port Port settings are showing odd values in there that don''t pertain to the Midi Port Setting when sending CC 23 value 0 to 6 (also tried 7)  

Motif 2 Midi Channel Assignment cc 24 is changing the Ports not the Channels and corrupting the screen in the Motif 2 area - no channel control is available
Midi Port Port settings are showing odd values in there that don''t pertain to the Midi Port Setting when sending CC 25 value 0 to 6 (also tried 7)  

When adjusting clock in values using in values 0  to 7  on CC 68 - the clock in updates perfectly but it also modifies the MOTIF 1 values on menu page 1/3

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There is no CC available for a global Stop, Start, Continue (not sure why this isn't available) would be nice I think unless there is a technical reason that I can't imagine that we wouldn't want this.  I'd be happy with a CC that did the same thing as pressing the top left ALL button.  Am I missing something? 

I'd like to post screenshots of what I have done but the forum doesn't seem to allow it despite their being an option to add attachments.
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#2
Hmm, we changed the way the CCs behave when changing the ports and channels by CC. It used to be one CC for ports and channels. I'll take a look and see what's happening there.

I think the ad Midi Port Assignment CC 19 range is probably wrong in the manual.

I'll run these by Steve and we'll get back to you.
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#3
Regarding CCs to start and stop parts, that is possible, I'll add it to our list, though I don't think anybody has ask for this before.

We don't want global MIDI Start to start all parts (or stop all parts), because we don't want all parts starting every time we press play on a KeyStep or Beatstep Pro for instance. That would be extremely annoying.

There is a feature for using SSC messages when using an external clock. This was made to work well for the Deluge and for Arturia controllers. When you have an external clock source that stops clock ticks when paused, you can "arm" the parts on The NDLR you want to play when the clock starts. However, the whole arming scheme doesn't apply to Internal clock use, where you can just press the buttons.
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#4
(01-23-2020, 12:54 AM)Darryl Wrote: Regarding CCs to start and stop parts, that is possible, I'll add it to our list, though I don't think anybody has ask for this before.

We don't want global MIDI Start to start all parts (or stop all parts), because we don't want all parts starting every time we press play on a KeyStep or Beatstep Pro for instance. That would be extremely annoying.

There is a feature for using SSC messages when using an external clock. This was made to work well for the Deluge and for Arturia controllers. When you have an external clock source that stops clock ticks when paused, you can "arm" the parts on The NDLR you want to play when the clock starts. However, the whole arming scheme doesn't apply to Internal clock use, where you can just press the buttons.

Daryl - please check the CC settings for Midi and Port settings for Drone , Pad and Motif 1 and Motif 2 
I'd be more than happy with the CC equivalent of a white button push for the All (pause / play button).  When you see the video I post later tonight you'll see why the request may be worthwhile to implement. Basically it is a full remote for the main features of the ndlr (everything where an CC control has been made available as per your manual)

I'll upload a youtube video to my channel tonight and link it so that you can see what I am up to here.  It is all but finished for the ipad. (Just waiting for some CC bug fixes as described above)  I haven't done the android version yet and won't unless there is an interest it.  You do have to buy the TouchOSC app to use the control template I completed but is is under $10.00 last time I checked. Once you buy the TouchOSC app you can make your own templates which is what I have done here.  I want to share my template with the community here but I can't seem to post pictures here so it is making my communication a bit difficult to get across.
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#5
(01-23-2020, 01:55 PM)Scotty_123 Wrote:
(01-23-2020, 12:54 AM)Darryl Wrote: Regarding CCs to start and stop parts, that is possible, I'll add it to our list, though I don't think anybody has ask for this before.

We don't want global MIDI Start to start all parts (or stop all parts), because we don't want all parts starting every time we press play on a KeyStep or Beatstep Pro for instance. That would be extremely annoying.

There is a feature for using SSC messages when using an external clock. This was made to work well for the Deluge and for Arturia controllers. When you have an external clock source that stops clock ticks when paused, you can "arm" the parts on The NDLR you want to play when the clock starts. However, the whole arming scheme doesn't apply to Internal clock use, where you can just press the buttons.

Daryl - please check the CC settings for Midi and Port settings for Drone , Pad and Motif 1 and Motif 2 
I'd be more than happy with the CC equivalent of a white button push for the All (pause / play button).  When you see the video I post later tonight you'll see why the request may be worthwhile to implement. Basically it is a full remote for the main features of the ndlr (everything where an CC control has been made available as per your manual)

I'll upload a youtube video to my channel tonight and link it so that you can see what I am up to here.  It is all but finished for the ipad. (Just waiting for some CC bug fixes as described above)  I haven't done the android version yet and won't unless there is an interest it.  You do have to buy the TouchOSC app to use the control template I completed but is is under $10.00 last time I checked. Once you buy the TouchOSC app you can make your own templates which is what I have done here and you can load this one that I have created.  I want to share my template with the community here but I can't seem to post pictures here so it is making my communication a bit difficult to get across.
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#6
I think Steve already owns TouchOSC, so we would be happy to give it a try.
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#7
I have now completed both an IPAD and Iphone version of my control templates for Ndlr. If you route ndlr through a DAW you can now have control over Ndlr through an iphone or ipad that is not physically connected (wireless via TouchBridge). This means you can walk around your studio with your phone or Ipad and control the Ndlr without having to be in front of it. I have 9 Tabbed Screens for the iphone (more tabs were needed for the smaller screen) and 5 Tabbed Screens for Ipad Control. All supported CCs are mapped and carefully calibrated for readability and comfortable button presses (including the broken Midi Port and Channel Assignment ccs) .

Can I have some comment on the broken CC for Midi Mapping or the Motif 1 Vel. Reset error? There has been no acknowledgement regarding the Menu corruption which is really just artifacts when changing menu values via CCs. Also there has been no follow up regarding a request for adding CCs for LFO controls or CC control for the All - Pause Play white button.

Any comment regarding these CC bugs and possibility of adding more CCs would be fantastic.
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#8
(01-28-2020, 08:06 AM)Scotty_123 Wrote: I have now completed both an IPAD and Iphone version of my control templates for Ndlr.  If you route ndlr through a DAW you can now have control over Ndlr through an iphone or ipad that is not physically connected (wireless via TouchBridge).  This means you can walk around your studio with your phone or Ipad and control the Ndlr without having to be in front of it. I have 9 Tabbed Screens for the iphone  (more tabs were needed for the smaller screen) and 5 Tabbed Screens for Ipad Control. All supported CCs are mapped and carefully calibrated for readability and comfortable button presses (including the broken Midi Port and Channel Assignment ccs) .

Can I have some comment on the broken CC for Midi Mapping or the Motif 1 Vel. Reset error?  There  has been no acknowledgement  regarding the Menu corruption which is really just artifacts when changing menu values via CCs.  Also there has been no follow up regarding a  request for adding CCs for LFO controls or CC control for the All - Pause Play white button.

Any comment regarding these CC bugs and possibility of adding more CCs would be fantastic.
Regarding the midi CCs, Menu artifacts and Motif 1 Velocity issues: I'm logging all the relevant bug reports now! Thanks for the vigilant reporting, I'll see if I can recreate them and let you know when we have an update. 

Regarding the TouchOSC template: This sounds pretty awesome! I'd love to see it! 
Jesse
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#9
Midi CC Update:

Steve’s gone through the MIDI CC issues reported by Scotty_123 and here’s a rundown of his findings:

1. Midi CC numbers for PORT and CHANNEL appear to be switched for all four channels in relation to the manual. We’ll get on updating the manual to correct that. (Ex: For Pad - MIDI Channel is 19 (not 18), MIDI Pad is 18 (not 19))

2. The values for choosing port numbers match those listed in the manual and for any value out of range they repeat (VALUE is modulo by 7, so for instance 8=1, 9=2...)

3. Channel selection CC’s Value Range does not currently match the manual. They are spread across a range of 128 values evenly, (so channel 1 = 0-7, channel 2 = 8-15...) since no other CCs are handled this way, in a future update we are likely going to revert this back to a 1:1 range, with repeating for out of range values in the same format as the PORT selection above.

4. Clock-in CC 68: We have been unable to replicate the issue where editing this value makes changes to Motif-1 menu 1/3. Possible external software issue?

5. CCs to start individual parts exist (85-88) but it seems like we should be able to add an additional CC for Start All in a future release. Stay tuned

Other notes:

* CC17 is not a recognized CC number by the NDLR, PAD uses 18/19.

* The 0-6 vs 1-7 numbering may be the result of a bug common in “midi control software” ecosystem, or a possibly the result of a global setting to start count at 0 or 1. More testing with TouchOSC will be needed.
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#10
First off thanks for the thoughtful feedback. I'll try to give a set of repeatable steps to replicate the reset Volume issue of Motif 1 when a clock stop message is received. I do know it is not dependent on the TouchOSC as it happens with or without the app running. I'll come back with some better information for you.

The only issue that you haven't mentioned is the menu corruption issue that I documented and others have experienced as well. That occurs when you are editing menu values using CCs but happen to be looking a different menu page than you are editing remotely via CC.

For example changing the humanize values via CC will temporally show erroneous values in the Pad menu box on menu page 1/3 if you are on physically on that menu page whilst editing the humanize CC. In fact most if not all menu items that are being edited via CCs will show erroneous information on menu items if you happen to editing remotely a menu related CC whilst viewing a different/unrelated menu page.

This doesn't seem to cause operational errors (it is disconcerting) and moving back and forth between the menu pages using the ndlr controls clears the erroneous information as a screen refresh takes place.

I have just setup a camera here to shoot some video and I'll post a link to highlight that issue and the Motif 1 Volume reset issue as well. Hopefully I can show the TouchOSC templates that I have completed as well.. I have now finished one that is working for android. Thanks again for the feedback.



Steve’s gone through the MIDI CC issues reported by Scotty_123 and here’s a rundown of his findings:

1. Midi CC numbers for PORT and CHANNEL appear to be switched for all four channels in relation to the manual. We’ll get on updating the manual to correct that. (Ex: For Pad - MIDI Channel is 19 (not 18), MIDI Pad is 18 (not 19))

2. The values for choosing port numbers match those listed in the manual and for any value out of range they repeat (VALUE is modulo by 7, so for instance 8=1, 9=2...)

3. Channel selection CC’s Value Range does not currently match the manual. They are spread across a range of 128 values evenly, (so channel 1 = 0-7, channel 2 = 8-15...) since no other CCs are handled this way, in a future update we are likely going to revert this back to a 1:1 range, with repeating for out of range values in the same format as the PORT selection above.

4. Clock-in CC 68: We have been unable to replicate the issue where editing this value makes changes to Motif-1 menu 1/3. Possible external software issue?

5. CCs to start individual parts exist (85-88) but it seems like we should be able to add an additional CC for Start All in a future release. Stay tuned

Other notes: 

* CC17 is not a recognized CC number by the NDLR, PAD uses 18/19.

* The 0-6 vs 1-7 numbering may be the result of a bug common in “midi control software” ecosystem, or a possibly the result of a global setting to start count at 0 or 1. More testing with TouchOSC will be needed.
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