Issue with clock

[bangkokbanger]

Can someone help with my issue 

Here it is 

I'm trying to connect a sequencer (deluge) to the ndlr using using deluge as master clock .

The issue I found is when I connect a drum machine to this setup i can't seem to sync the transport on the drum machine. It's running at 300rpm! (Syncs fine when connected direct to the deluge though) 

I seem to be getting some midi feedback loop or similar 

Can someone provide a solution?

Here is my setup now:-


1. Deluge midi out to ndlr midi A in.
I want to control the ndlr from the deluge and program notes etc on the deluge. I can get this to work as long as I don't add a drum machine/groovebox into the midi chain (see below)

Midi Chain

2. Ndlr clock set to ndlr midi A (thats from the deluge) and ndlr pad set to midi 1, drone to 2, motof 1 to 3, motif 4 to 4.
3. Ndlr midi A out to midi splitter box (to split the midi to the synths and drum machine)
4. Midi splitter out channel 1 (pad) to synth A, channel 2 (drone) to synth B , Channel 3 (motif 1) to drum machine channel 3, and channel 4 (motif 2) to drum machine channel 4
5. Synths all work fine but the drum machine won't sync with the transport from the deluge . Its runs at 300rpm! Taking the ndlr or the midi splitter out the chain removes the issue so it's nothing unexpected .

So there appears to be an issue with clock where more than 2 sequencers are in the mix.

Any idea how to fix much appreciated

[oldgearguy]

You are sending 2 streams to the same drum machine (Motif 1 and 2). Both streams have the clock on them and I think that is what is causing the problem.
Simple test - unplug (or mute) the Channel 3 or 4 stream and it should be fine.

If that works, you either need to add a filter box on one of the streams, set up something inside the drum machine parameters to limit which channels it uses for clock input.
Or not use the same machine for both motifs.

There's other even more convoluted ways around it, but they involve additional splitters/merge boxes or MIDI patchbays that can also filter.

[bangkokbanger]

You are sending 2 streams to the same drum machine (Motif 1 and 2).  Both streams have the clock on them and I think that is what is causing the problem.
Simple test - unplug (or mute) the Channel 3 or 4 stream and it should be fine.

If that works, you either need to add a filter box on one of the streams, set up something inside the drum machine parameters to limit which channels it uses for clock input.
Or not use the same machine for both motifs.

There's other even more convoluted ways around it, but they involve additional splitters/merge boxes or MIDI patchbays that can also filter.

yes this is of course correct

Only issue if i remove channel 3 and 4 then im no longer using the drum machine/ groovebox (mc707) which als acts as my mixer as its got loads of channels and faders which i really want to use as well as its synth engine and drum tracks!

i have 1 midi spltter box (2 in and 3 out) already, and ive got another (midi through and merge box) which im hoping might work

---

https://www.thomann.de/gb/miditech_midi_thru_filter.htm

i wonder if this would be the solution?

[oldgearguy]

You are sending 2 streams to the same drum machine (Motif 1 and 2).  Both streams have the clock on them and I think that is what is causing the problem.
Simple test - unplug (or mute) the Channel 3 or 4 stream and it should be fine.

If that works, you either need to add a filter box on one of the streams, set up something inside the drum machine parameters to limit which channels it uses for clock input.
Or not use the same machine for both motifs.

There's other even more convoluted ways around it, but they involve additional splitters/merge boxes or MIDI patchbays that can also filter.

yes this is of course correct

Only issue if I remove channel 3 and 4 then I'm no longer using the drum machine/ groovebox (mc707) which also acts as my mixer as its got loads of channels and faders which i really want to use as well as its synth engine and drum tracks!

i have 1 midi splitter box (2 in and 3 out) already, and ive got another (midi through and merge box) which I'm hoping might work

---

https://www.thomann.de/gb/miditech_midi_thru_filter.htm

i wonder if this would be the solution?

Well, if you're using the single DIN MIDI input to the Roland MC-707 and need a clock signal to control start/stop/tempo, that filter may do too much.  It blocks all realtime messages, so no clock info goes to the MC-707.

You'd need to use a splitter to split the Deluge clock out to the NDLR and to the MC-707.  Turn off the NDLR clock send, and use a merge box to merge the Deluge clock and the NDLR data for the motifs.  Or leave the NDLR clock send on and use the filter box to block all clocking from the NDLR to the merge into the MC-707.

[bangkokbanger]

Thanks

So if I'm understanding his correctly I need a a midi merger AND a filter box

Deluge midi out split to 2 channels (A and B) by using a Splitter box. Splitter A channel to ndlr and spitter B channel to a 2 into 1 merger.(see below for other input)

Ndlr clock set to external (midi A from the splitter box)

Midi b out on the ndlr to the midi merger box.
Spitter box B channel to the other channel on the merger box.

Single channel out from the merger to the MC707

If I'm not wrong this will also have a clock loop as there are 2 clock inputs into the merger, so I'll need a filter box to filter out the clock from the ndlr (you can't disable clock output on the ndlr, only the input)

Is this correct?

As I already have a merger and splitter box (nectar midiflex 4 merger and spitter box)
all I need is a filter and merger box. If such a thing exists!

Is my understanding correct?

Thanks a lot btw

[oldgearguy]

There has to be an easier answer to this configuration.
I (or someone) needs to sit down with the Deluge, MC707, and NDLR manuals and think it through.

The core issue is that the MC707 needs clock *and* two streams from the NDLR, right?  (Motif 1 and 2) and there's only a single MIDI input to the MC707.

[bangkokbanger]

https://conductivelabs.com/forum/showthread.php?tid=45

Apparently a workaround which didn't solve my issue.

[oldgearguy]

Why not use the MC707 as the master clock?
One MIDI out to the Deluge, the other to the NDLR.
Turn off NDLR sending clocks and you should be good to go

[bangkokbanger]

I managed to get it to work

1. Can't use any midi splitter or thru before the ndlr even if if its set to Thru.
2. Route midi onto A or B. Midi out on B only. A doesn't work
3. Used spitter after 707.

Works! Thanks for helping

[Jesse Johannesen]

OK this makes sense. If you turned off the internal clock of the NDLR then there is only one clock source (Deluge if I understand correctly) but you still need the transport controls to be passed, which requires you to use NDLR MIDI B out (A blocks transport).


From the NDLR manual



MIDI Note & Message Thru Port Mapping
** MIDI messages: Stop, Start, & Continue are passed thru only on these input ports.
In Port                Out Port(s)
5 Pin A            5 Pin A & USB Port(1)
5 Pin B**        5 Pin B & USB Port(2)
USB Port(1)    5 Pin A & USB Port(1)
USB Port(2)**  5 Pin B & USB Port(2)
USB Port(3)    USB Port(3)
USB Port(4)    USB Port(4)

---

I think I am misunderstanding the need to send 2 separate midi splitter channels to the same drum machine. Couldn't we have just one cable from the splitter go there and just have the two motifs be on different channels? I would think that is the best way to do that. I'm glad you ended up getting it working!