Hi...my NDLR x 2 FW 1.073 is crashing alot

[Jesse Johannesen]

So here's what I've done to try and replicate this issue:
Octatrack MIDI out -> MIDI A in NDLR.
OT MIDI track 1 set to send on MIDI Ch 15 (NDLR Ctrl Channel).
OT sends MIDI Clock.
Playing a pattern with notes spaced about 1/8th note apart for the most part, 16 steps long.
4 trigless trigs each with changes to CC#s 27, 29, 30, 31 with different values on each trig.
Set CC 73 (key) to be edited by hand.
Hit play.
NDLR plays fine for 15 min.
Change tempo to 220bpm
NDLR Plays fine for 1/2 hr. but I get a hanging note.
I will leave it playing over night and let you know if I get any crashes, but I think we have established that this is either something else in the chain, (and we really need to simplify things to troubleshoot this, like one midi cable out of OT and into NDLR simplify), or it's a faulty device, or your octatrack settings are doing something we don't understand that mine is not. I encourage you to try the one cable, one connection test, see if it fails, the simpler the test the better.

I am still confused about whether or not you can consistently get both devices to crash or if it's just one. Can you please clarify that for me? I remember you said once you came in and they were both crashed, but I want to know if you can switch units and they both behave the same. If it's just one unit, that would tell us something, so please test that out and let me know.

Jesse

[Ghostz_of_Moar]

So here's what I've done to try and replicate this issue:
Octatrack MIDI out -> MIDI A in NDLR.
OT MIDI track 1 set to send on MIDI Ch 15 (NDLR Ctrl Channel).
OT sends MIDI Clock.
Playing a pattern with notes spaced about 1/8th note apart for the most part, 16 steps long.
4 trigless trigs each with changes to CC#s 27, 29, 30, 31 with different values on each trig.
Set CC 73 (key) to be edited by hand.
Hit play.
NDLR plays fine for 15 min.
Change tempo to 220bpm
NDLR Plays fine for 1/2 hr. but I get a hanging note.
I will leave it playing over night and let you know if I get any crashes, but I think we have established that this is either something else in the chain, (and we really need to simplify things to troubleshoot this, like one midi cable out of OT and into NDLR simplify), or it's a faulty device, or your octatrack settings are doing something we don't understand that mine is not. I encourage you to try the one cable, one connection test, see if it fails, the simpler the test the better.

I am still confused about whether or not you can consistently get both devices to crash or if it's just one. Can you please clarify that for me? I remember you said once you came in and they were both crashed, but I want to know if you can switch units and they both behave the same. If it's just one unit, that would tell us something, so please test that out and let me know.

Jesse

hi Jesse, its Sunday and thank you for taking the time to get back to me.

both NDLRs will lock up if I use trig(red)...and over use trigless trigs(green)...by over use I mean parameter locking several attributes and sending lots of cc over.

so on using the most time accurate method of triggering the pad(which after testing is the note/on off method using the OT(keyboard where it says C4-->B4)...its crashes.

With the green trigs it is not as accurate...and I have to either plant additional triggers to turn the pad off then on and then plant other triggers to modulate other attributes...its just not as accurate....I wish I could say it was a decent work around. I am hoping and praying that using the midi in A port might be the issue(by using the red trigfers) but I don't see why.

I use the out from the Octatrack to the midi in B of the NDLR...(which I will switch to midi input A to see whether not that is the issue)

I have changed midi cables and when the pattern freezes a NDLR I can easily jump the cables to the second NDLR and the same issue happens.

Should I make a video and post this taking place so you can watch this as it happens?

---

Update: using 1 bar of 16th note regular red note on, note off triggers crashes NDLR #1 when parameter locking chord I—> VII on every other trig (ie the eighth notes) at 128 bpm going into midi input A.

NDLR #2 has 1 bar of 16th note regular red triggers with no parameter locks going into midi input A and this one does not crash

---

I will go back and attempt the same effect with the green trigless trig strategy momentarily.

[Jesse Johannesen]

So here's what I've done to try and replicate this issue:
Octatrack MIDI out -> MIDI A in NDLR.
OT MIDI track 1 set to send on MIDI Ch 15 (NDLR Ctrl Channel).
OT sends MIDI Clock.
Playing a pattern with notes spaced about 1/8th note apart for the most part, 16 steps long.
4 trigless trigs each with changes to CC#s 27, 29, 30, 31 with different values on each trig.
Set CC 73 (key) to be edited by hand.
Hit play.
NDLR plays fine for 15 min.
Change tempo to 220bpm
NDLR Plays fine for 1/2 hr. but I get a hanging note.
I will leave it playing over night and let you know if I get any crashes, but I think we have established that this is either something else in the chain, (and we really need to simplify things to troubleshoot this, like one midi cable out of OT and into NDLR simplify), or it's a faulty device, or your octatrack settings are doing something we don't understand that mine is not. I encourage you to try the one cable, one connection test, see if it fails, the simpler the test the better.

I am still confused about whether or not you can consistently get both devices to crash or if it's just one. Can you please clarify that for me? I remember you said once you came in and they were both crashed, but I want to know if you can switch units and they both behave the same. If it's just one unit, that would tell us something, so please test that out and let me know.

Jesse

hi Jesse, its Sunday and thank you for taking the time to get back to me.

both NDLRs will lock up if I use trig(red)...and over use trigless trigs(green)...by over use I mean parameter locking several attributes and sending lots of cc over.

so on using the most time accurate method of triggering the pad(which after testing is the note/on off method using the OT(keyboard where it says C4-->B4)...its crashes.

With the green trigs it is not as accurate...and I have to either plant additional triggers to turn the pad off then on and then plant other triggers to modulate other attributes...its just not as accurate....I wish I could say it was a decent work around. I am hoping and praying that using the midi in A port might be the issue(by using the red trigfers) but I don't see why.

I use the out from the Octatrack to the midi in B of the NDLR...(which I will switch to midi input A to see whether not that is the issue)

I have changed midi cables and when the pattern freezes a NDLR I can easily jump the cables to the second NDLR and the same issue happens.

Should I make a video and post this taking place so you can watch this as it happens?

---

Update: using 1 bar of 16th note regular red note on, note off triggers crashes NDLR #1 when parameter locking chord I—> VII on every other trig (ie the eighth notes) at 128 bpm going into midi input A.



NDLR #2 has 1 bar of 16th note regular red triggers with no parameter locks going into midi input A and this one does not crash

---

I will go back and attempt the same effect with the green trigless trig strategy momentarily.

so on using the most time accurate method of triggering the pad(which after testing is the note/on off method using the OT(keyboard where it says C4-->B4)...its crashes.

I don't understand what this means. What does triggering the pad mean? Also what does c4-->b4 mean here? I'm sorry if you explained that elsewhere. 

Video might be good, but I feel like now that I have it set up it might be easier to deal with via a zoom meeting if you have a way to do that. I'm available over the next couple of hours if you would like to do that. PM me your email and when you'll be available and I'll send you some meeting invite info. I'm west coast USA so try to give me either a time in that time zone, or a number of hours/minutes from when you send the message, ie: 2hrs from now, or 1 1/2 hrs. etc.

Jesse

[Ghostz_of_Moar]

Hey I’m on the east coast near Washington DC. It’s getting late here now and I sent you a pm. Thanks for checking back with me.

I’m going to see if the mv8800 causes the same issues.

If I’m lucky...I can send note on/off from the mv8800 for chords I-VII and midi cc from the octatrack.

It’s running now for five minutes on the mv8800. I will keep you posted.

I’m just flustered at the situation because of what the NDLR enables me to do and how having to deal with it choking up is a bit of a challenge when I really have all these harmonic ideas I have been ready to dig into.

---

By c4-B4 I mean when you lay a normal red trigger on the octatrack and it’s corresponding to the C4-B4 note...which is then set to select chord I-VII on the NDLR.

[Jesse Johannesen]

Hey I’m on the east coast near Washington DC. It’s getting late here now and I sent you a pm. Thanks for checking back with me.

I’m going to see if the mv8800 causes the same issues. 

If I’m lucky...I can send note on/off from the mv8800 for chords I-VII and midi cc from the octatrack.

It’s running now for five minutes on the mv8800. I will keep you posted.

I’m just flustered at the situation because of what the NDLR enables me to do and how having to deal with it choking up is a bit of a challenge when I really have all these harmonic ideas I have been ready to dig into.

---

By c4-B4 I mean when you lay a normal red trigger on the octatrack and it’s corresponding to the C4-B4 note...which is then set to select chord I-VII on the NDLRI 

I got caught up in a phonecall, I have your number now so lets plan on figuring out a time tomorrow and go over it then. I'll message you when I'm free.
Jesse

[Ghostz_of_Moar]

Bet. Thanks and I appreciate that.

Good news.

Since my last post I used my mv8800 to send the same note on/off data the Octatrack was sending and the NDLR likes the data a lot more. No cc data, just the C4-B4 that corresponds to Chord I-VII...the NDLR seems to be able to deal with the same data from the mv8800 without flinching.

The NDLR has 2 midi inputs so I’m hoping that I can still slip in cc data from the OT.

but yeah there could be something up with the anatomy of the octatrack midi signal and how it is handled by the NDLR.

[Jesse Johannesen]

Hey I’m on the east coast near Washington DC. It’s getting late here now and I sent you a pm. Thanks for checking back with me.

I’m going to see if the mv8800 causes the same issues. 

If I’m lucky...I can send note on/off from the mv8800 for chords I-VII and midi cc from the octatrack.

It’s running now for five minutes on the mv8800. I will keep you posted.

I’m just flustered at the situation because of what the NDLR enables me to do and how having to deal with it choking up is a bit of a challenge when I really have all these harmonic ideas I have been ready to dig into.

---

By c4-B4 I mean when you lay a normal red trigger on the octatrack and it’s corresponding to the C4-B4 note...which is then set to select chord I-VII on the NDLRI 

I got caught up in a phonecall, I have your number now so lets plan on figuring out a time tomorrow and go over it then. I'll message you when I'm free.
Jesse

[Ghostz_of_Moar]

Ok so for some reason the NDLR likes the Roland MV8800 quite a bit more than the Octatrack. I am able to use the note on/off trigger method without crashing the system and I can send midi cc data to change the attributes as pulses and the overall performance and response is better.

I did crash NDLR #2 when I would directly modulate(noodle) the pad knobs as it was reading in midi cc from the roland mv8800....which is telling. But at this point the roland mv8800 can send the instructions to the NDLRs...and if I leave them be...it can track in the note on/off and cc data without freezing.

I’m super bummed about the octatrack and NDLR not being able to have a stable relationship. I understand the likelihood of the issue being addressed in a firmware release will prolly be a remix of ‘hopes and prayers.’

I do understand that Jesse Johansson has a life and can’t do a thorough testing of using an octatrack as a control/sequencer device for the NDLR(on top of everything else)....and the reason for this thread was not to bash the NDLR...but to try and get to why it was so easy to crash a normally functioning forward thinking futuristic sequencer with the Octatrack...which isn’t a slouch sequencer.

I’m also currently increasing the midi cc load by adding more continuous data.(this is for the mv8800 and NDLR). Due to the responsiveness of the NDLR to the MV8800....I have now made a pattern template which can be ported to song mode.

The good news about using the mv8800 is there is a much tighter response so far....and while it demands a more ponderous workflow...I have other goodies like groove quantize templates and organizational gems.

Hopefully this is helpful to others who might be in my same boat down the road.

[Jesse Johannesen]

So I did a 48 hr test of my Octa and NDLR at 240BPM blasting 5 CCs and using internal MOD Matrix on top of that and didn't crash once. (I did get some hung notes though). I think it might be time to try it using your exact project. Is there a chance you could email me your Octatrack project so I could load it on my machine and see if it makes my NDLR crash? You could send it to Support@conductivelabs.com

Jesse

[Ghostz_of_Moar]

So I did a 48 hr test of my Octa and NDLR at 240BPM blasting 5 CCs and using internal MOD Matrix on top of that and didn't crash once. (I did get some hung notes though). I think it might be time to try it using your exact project. Is there a chance you could email me your Octatrack project so I could load it on my machine and see if it makes my NDLR crash? You could send it to Support@conductivelabs.com

Jesse

Did you use red triggers or just cc automation?

Did you check the timing of the cc commands in relationship to the commands on the NDLR?

The exact project isn’t that hard.

128 bpm 

16 red triggers on the CTRL channel which trigger the note on/off

Parameter locks to the key to choose chord degree C-B (chords I-VII)

That’s is the first test.

Again if you would like for me to film this and post it in a shared environment I have no issue with doing so.

I will check on the octatrack but I did switch the NDLRs over to the mv8800.

---

Also. on the MV8800 the crashing is exponential less than the mv8800...and mostly occurs when I am sending the note on/off cc data from mv8800 and using the NDLR's controls for live edits...even then the crashing is occasional...once a session max(8-10 hours).

with the Octatrack...the note on/off (red triggers) gave me the most trouble.

the issue I had with cc automation on the green triggers was the timing was inconsistent/inaccurate...and if I used lots of cc automation it would crash the NDLR as well.

I did have sessions where in which I was able to let it run for a night(with the green trigless on the OT)...and I thought I was in the clear...and then when I begin to build on the pattern the NDLR would freeze...this would happen when I would look for happy accidents in modulation by changing the time scale in different tracks (have one track play for NDLR CTRL at 1/4 speed against the track for PAD play at full speed.)

I will look into wrapping the OT project up and mailing it to you because there are no samples in it so it should be really light.

I am ok with using the NDLR with the MV8800 ...though it is much bulkier at least its stable and the NDLR units are much more responsive with the note on/off. Stability wise it is like night and day.