NDLR powered by MRCC

[fgeorgy]

Hi,

Is there any risk powering the NDLR from a USB Host port on the MRCC?

More generally, what is the best way to connect NDLR, MRCC, 4 hardware synth (DIN) and Ableton Live?  

My idea is : 

- Mac running Ableton Live --> PC USB on the MRCC (send/received through "virtual" midi cables)
- MRCC USB host A --> NDLR USB (send/received through "virtual" midi cables)
- MRCC DIN OUT 1..4 --> synths (send only)


Ableton will run the master clock. 


I don't think I have to use any of the NDLR DIN port since all the messages can be sent/received through the MRCC USB virtual cables. 


I'll hook everything up as soon as I can find a couple of hours available here...

[Jesse Johannesen]

Yeah I think you're onto the best solution already. The NDLR uses a ridiculously small amount of power, so it' well within the limits of those host ports. You can send clock to it from Ableton via the host port, and send MIDI out to any Synths, DAW or whatever from the Host port as well. You wouldn't need to use the MIDI DIN ports on the NDLR at all with that set up like that.
You Should even be fine sending MIDI out over just one of the USB Ports, instead of using all four, (I can't think of any reason that it would be helpful to do so anyway).

[fgeorgy]

Thanks for your answer.

I haven't had enough time yet (kids!) to test the complete setup but so far (MRCC, NDLR, 2 synths, no Ableton yet) it's working fine.

Once my setup is complete I'll draw a diagram and share it here, with the NDLR and MRCC config. Maybe this can help others.

[Nelson Baboon]

i wasn't sure whether to start a new thread, or to post this here, in that i don't think that my confusion has anything to do with the ndlr per se.

but I am failing at this, and it points to my (still) total confusion regarding some of the usb routings.

At this point, sending midi out a din port is easy, and I succeed every time. I immediately got results by
1. plugging the ndlr into host port 1. this is the usb port that the ndlr motif 1 is sending on.
2. routing that input to output on din port 2, which I have connected to my synth.
Easy

However, this is what I want to do. For now, since I don't have all my midi synths connected to the mrcc, I wanted to also be able to route the midi through Ableton Live. Am not getting this to work at all.

I do not have any of the din ports from the mrcc connected, and I don't think I need them in theory....

So, how do I route this so that I can send out one of the mrcc ports to the same synth as above? I am obviously trying something that isn't correct - I press the input for the host synth, and the virtual port 1 is selected. I'm not sure how that comes into play, and I suspect that I am not using this virtual port correctly.

it would seem intuitively that I would route this input midi to the output of the pc port. Essentially, what i'm trying to do is do the actual routing to the synth from Live, and use the mrcc to send to the computer. But I am missing something. Will continue to look at this...

Edit: ok - first dumb thing....the synth only has din ports, so i can't direct the signal to it from live. I have to choose a synth that isn't yet connected.....but i should still see the midi on my software midi monitor if it is being routed to the computer correctly. So, still same basic confusion, but starting with a silly mistake.

Edit 2: hmmm - troubles with the manual again. So, the ndlr track is set up to go out USB1. Doesn't that correspond to the virtual port 1 on the mrcc?? Why does the quick start say to make sure to use virtual port 1? Wouldn't I select virtual port 2 for the input, if the ndlr was sending out on USB 2? the quick start then talks about what i thought was exactly what i'm looking for: "If the out-port is the USB PC port be sure that the virtual out-port cable is set to #1 (see step 2) - which refers back to the usb host routing? this would seem to be where i'm missing something important.

Edit 3: hmmm - ok, NOW the connection shows up between the host port and the pc out port, and it is showing on my software midi monitor. this has happened before, when i tried to figure this out. I'm totally unsure of what I did to get this routing set up, because it was not working at first As I understand it, that is.

[Dark Waves]

i wasn't sure whether to start a new thread, or to post this here, in that i don't think that my confusion has anything to do with the ndlr per se.

but I am failing at this, and it points to my (still) total confusion regarding some of the usb routings.

At this point, sending midi out a din port is easy, and I succeed every time. I immediately got results by
1. plugging the ndlr into host port 1. this is the usb port that the ndlr motif 1 is sending on.
2. routing that input to output on din port 2, which I have connected to my synth.
Easy

However, this is what I want to do. For now, since I don't have all my midi synths connected to the mrcc, I wanted to also be able to route the midi through Ableton Live. Am not getting this to work at all.

I do not have any of the din ports from the mrcc connected, and I don't think I need them in theory....

So, how do I route this so that I can send out one of the mrcc ports to the same synth as above? I am obviously trying something that isn't correct - I press the input for the host synth, and the virtual port 1 is selected. I'm not sure how that comes into play, and I suspect that I am not using this virtual port correctly.

it would seem intuitively that I would route this input midi to the output of the pc port. Essentially, what i'm trying to do is do the actual routing to the synth from Live, and use the mrcc to send to the computer. But I am missing something. Will continue to look at this...

Edit: ok - first dumb thing....the synth only has din ports, so i can't direct the signal to it from live. I have to choose a synth that isn't yet connected.....but i should still see the midi on my software midi monitor if it is being routed to the computer correctly. So, still same basic confusion, but starting with a silly mistake.

Edit 2: hmmm - troubles with the manual again. So, the ndlr track is set up to go out USB1. Doesn't that correspond to the virtual port 1 on the mrcc?? Why does the quick start say to make sure to use virtual port 1? Wouldn't I select virtual port 2 for the input, if the ndlr was sending out on USB 2? the quick start then talks about what i thought was exactly what i'm looking for: "If the out-port is the USB PC port be sure that the virtual out-port cable is set to #1 (see step 2) - which refers back to the usb host routing? this would seem to be where i'm missing something important.

Edit 3: hmmm - ok, NOW the connection shows up between the host port and the pc out port, and it is showing on my software midi monitor. this has happened before, when i tried to figure this out. I'm totally unsure of what I did to get this routing set up, because it was not working at first As I understand it, that is.

Everything you're trying to do can be done.  One hurdle I had, not with Live, but with Studio One, was setting it's routings up correctly to take MIDI from any of the 12 virtual MRCC feeds coming in, and sending it back out to any of the 12 returning out, and I have a whole rant on that in another thread.  Since I haven't begun using Ableton Live yet I wouldn't be much help for that aspect.  What I would suggest for the MRCC end is to think of the total route in stages: first NDLR to MRCC,  then MRCC to PC, then PC to MRCC, and MRCC to synth.  The first two and last two stages each make a routing pair.  It sounds like you managed to get the first pair going, but don't remember how.

The first part of every pair, being a source (or input) will always be a left button or left button combo for virtual inputs.  In this case left USB button for whichever port you're using (A, B, C, or D) together with button 1, 2, 3, or 4 to the right (which are normally output buttons, but being used here just to choose the virtual port from the NDLR, so number 1 for now).  So that's set half of the NDLR route up; then for the output half of this pair, holding the right PC button (because it's your destination) select any of the 12 virtual ports, doesn't really matter which one so long as you also pick it in the software.

For the second half of the route, also a source and destination pair, start with the left PC button (as it's the input coming back from Live now) and hold it together with whichever of the 12 virtual ports you've set up in Live to feed out, so again, using the 12 output buttons not as outputs, but as selectors.  Then releasing the PC button, select the DIN output port in which your synth is the destination, and that finishes up that routing pair.

I hope that all makes sense and is correct, as I'm not in front of the unit at the moment and am going off memory, so good luck!

[Nelson Baboon]

live wasn't the problem. the mrcc was the problem. Live was set up correctly, and i have always had success with the virtual ports there once the mrcc was 'seeing' the routing.

To sum up the problem - i have encountered now several times that setting up a routing using the host port did not work at first, and then 'magically' began working later on, despite (to the best of my knowledge) not engaging in anything different. I can't remember the first device in which i encountered this, but the second one was the Squarp Pyramid, where it was reported that others have reported issues. I now have a din connection set up there. In that case it really doesn't matter, since I realized (duh) that the pyramid can only send on one port/channel at a time.

But then I encountered the same symptoms with the ndlr. absolutely no luck at first I already understand and have used the basic routing tips that you have above, which is why this has been so puzzling. First (and why does the quick start say that you have to choose virtual usb port 1?) . What you describe is EXACTLY what i was doing. Holding down the left input button for the host part, and choosing the virtual port 1, then holding the right pc button. NOTHING. The port did not stay lit.

I can't remember now, so I suppose that I actually didn't do the 'second half' at first, but that wouldn't explain why the output light for the pc port would not stay lit.

After trying this out for quite some time, I noticed that it was staying lit, and all of the rest of it worked.

I should not have to select a din output port if I'm not using it, as my test didn't require it, and could easily yield a false positive, as at first (as has always been the case with the din outputs) it was simple to set up the host port input out through the din port. No problems there.

[Dark Waves]

OK, sorry, apparently I misunderstood where the problem was.

[Nelson Baboon]

I am very likely missing SOMETHING in the mrcc set up, but yeah - it's there where i'm encountering the roadblock. And it seems to only exist in the combination of the host usb and the pc connection. but for live, it's must a simple matter of choosing the right port. If the mrcc is sending out a din port, that works easily. if it's sending out the pc port, there must be an additional step.

[Jesse Johannesen]

Ok, I'm having a lot of trouble following this issue, but I would love to help figure out how to get you where you want to be.

It sounds like what you want is to send MIDI in from the NDLR on USB Host port of your choice, then route that MIDI to either a MIDI device on a DIN Output port, OR out the PC Port to your DAW. Is that accurate?

Do you A) want these both to happen at the same time, (send to both ports at once),
B) want two separate presets for either scenario that you can load when you want to use that particular approach,
OR C) want it to always go from the NDLR into the MRCC and out to the DAW, then back into the MRCC and back out to the DIN port Synth afterwards?

These should all be possiblilities.

Jesse