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+--- Thread: Control via Midi CC - Issues (/showthread.php?tid=51)
Control via Midi CC - Issues - MKS30 - 01-10-2019
I would hope the team could do a thorough check of all functions controllable via CC from a DAW.
1/ What is very obvious is the 'flashing' of the display, that does not happen when editing locally.
2/ When driving from CC's often a red 'MTC' will appear which is distracting and probably unnecessary
3/ CC47 DIV is not functioning
4/ CC48 and CC50 trigger bad screen flashes and a yellow 'NO' in the bottom LHS
5/ Events (especially notes) triggered via CC are way slower than when triggered via notes. Example: Bitwig keyboard Vs Bitwig button CC's, both piped through the same signal flow i.e Bitwig>NDLR>Bitwig Instrument
6/ In Bitwig there is only latched buttons on/off available to trigger notes, modes, scales etc via CC. So what happens is when selecting another button, instead of triggering a new event and killing the old one....the CC's are summed.
ex: Press a D,E,F,G,A or B note, press again to release and the C drone is triggered.
ex: Press a 2,3,4,5,6 or 7 Mode, press again to release and the 1 mode is triggered
ex: Press mode 2 + 3 and mode 5? is triggered etc....
i.e additive behaviour when using CC's ....a bit like the old rhythm machines where you could hold down multiple buttons to combine rhythms.
RE: Control via Midi CC - Issues - Darryl - 01-11-2019
Thank you for the thorough report, we'll add this to the list of items to look into. We don't use DAWs for anything but recording, pretty much on the DAWless jamming end of the spectrum, so you might be exposing some things that haven't been tried in the same way. The redrawing of the display might be a regression, we thought we'd fixed that before.
RE: Control via Midi CC - Issues - Steve - 01-11-2019
(01-10-2019, 11:27 PM)MKS30 Wrote: 1/ What is very obvious is the 'flashing' of the display, that does not happen when editing locally.
2/ When driving from CC's often a red 'MTC' will appear which is distracting and probably unnecessary
3/ CC47 DIV is not functioning
4/ CC48 and CC50 trigger bad screen flashes and a yellow 'NO' in the bottom LHS
5/ Events (especially notes) triggered via CC are way slower than when triggered via notes. Example: Bitwig keyboard Vs Bitwig button CC's, both piped through the same signal flow i.e Bitwig>NDLR>Bitwig Instrument
6/ In Bitwig there is only latched buttons on/off available to trigger notes, modes, scales etc via CC. So what happens is when selecting another button, instead of triggering a new event and killing the old one....the CC's are summed.
ex: Press a D,E,F,G,A or B note, press again to release and the C drone is triggered.
ex: Press a 2,3,4,5,6 or 7 Mode, press again to release and the 1 mode is triggered
ex: Press mode 2 + 3 and mode 5? is triggered etc....
i.e additive behavior when using CC's ....a bit like the old rhythm machines where you could hold down multiple buttons to combine rhythms.
Hi MKS30,
Thanks for taking the time to share you findings with us! We are always trying to improve The NDLR and customer feedback is a high priority. I have been working on bug sightings and tidying up the FW a bit, so I had a close look at your sightings. Below is what I found and some possible explanations. Please feel free to reply to clarify. I really want to reproduce any issues, so I can fix them. Also it is very handy to monitor the MIDI messages. This way you can be sure exactly which messages are being sent and there destinations and values. On a PC "MIDI Ox" works but is a bit clumsy.
1) I didn't see any flashing of the screen during an of my testing... I wonder if there could be a MIDI loop in your setup and the MIDI messages are being infinitely repeated?
2) Unfortunately I didn't see this either? The word "TIC" is blinked in the "Clock In" menu box (Settings 3 menu) when external MIDI clock messages are received. And the word "MIDI" is blinked in the NDLR "Control MIDI Channel" menu box and "Keyboard Transpose" menu box (Settings 1 menu) when inbound MIDI messages are received on those channels. I also searched the source code for "MTC" and there was no hit... I was hoping that there was a stray debug message or something that could be easily fixed.
3 & 4) CC's 47, 48, & 50 are all working from the BeatStep Pro for me. CC's 47, 48, & 50 are all Motif 2 targets, did you have the Motif 2 screen showing? Sometimes I think I'm editing Motif 2 and I find I'm on Motif 1 screen. There is a word "NO" in the Chord Invert menu Box (Settings 3 menu) which is in the lower LHS that is controlled with CC 69. Can you confirm if that's the same text location?
5) Again, I wonder if there could be a MIDI loop that is causing this delay.
6) This is a great issue! Thanks for finding it. I tweaked the code a bit and it is fixed. It will be included in the next beta release!
OK, in the case of the Chord Degree (1-7) and Chord Type (1-7) individual buttons can now be used. In Arturia parlance there are "gate" and "toggle" button types. The Gate works fine, press any of the 7 buttons and the Chord Degree and Chord Type work as expected. The Toggle signal-wise works-ish but the user experience is terrible.
- "Gate" sends two MIDI messages: an On value when pressed and an Off value when released. Set up the On values on 7 buttons to 1-7 and the Off values all to 0, The NDLR now ignores the 0s when the button is released.
- "Toggle" sends one MIDI message at a time: an On value when pressed the first time and an Off value when press the second time. Set up the On values on 7 buttons to 1-7 and the Off values all to 0, The NDLR now ignores the 0s when the button is pressed a second time. So each button needs to be pressed twice... I can't control the state machine of another device. :-(
HACKER NOTE... if you set the Off value to 1-7 (same as the On values) then the buttons don't need to be pressed twice! However on the BeatStep the buttons are lit red and stay lit until the second press. If you ignore the button light "state" it works like the "gate" button. :-) The second trigger is ignored by The NDLR due to the quantization.
Also I believe the additive behavior is Bitwig doing a bit-wise (no pun intended) summing of a defined "group" of buttons.
Again, thanks for the details... I will go back through The NDLR's MIDI implementation and fix any other similar issues. Stay tuned for an update and/or beta release.
Thanks,
Steve
Conductive Labs code monkey