using vst sequencer to control ndlr in fl studio

using vst sequencer to control ndlr in fl studio - Printable Version

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+--- Thread: using vst sequencer to control ndlr in fl studio (/showthread.php?tid=1328)

using vst sequencer to control ndlr in fl studio - chaoswyrm - 02-16-2021

hi,

i just got my ndlr the other day and so far i absolutely LOVE it! its been a breeze to set up and get it working. i find its well thought out and most things are pretty intuitive.

with that said...i am having an issue with fl studio...and i do think its more a problem with the daw than the ndlr...but ill ask anyway, maybe someone here has dealt with this already.

what im trying to do is set up a generative environment where i use a vst sequencer (specifically seqcollection2 from hy-plugins) to change the chords on the ndlr. i can do it with no problems via midi keyboard and the midi out plugin in fl studio...but the midi out plugin doesnt (as far as i can see) accept midi from vsts....so i cant seem to get fl studio to send midi from the midi out plugin any other way than a keyboard or the piano roll.

normally, i could just use the piano roll, but the intent here is to have a never ending generative environment that doesnt repeat.

i have a synthstrom deluge that i could do this with...but im really trying to get it to work with my vst sequencers as they are far more robust than the one in the deluge...and ultimately 90% of my workflow is itb anyway.

well...hopefully i have explained my intent and my issue well enough to be understood. feel free to ask clarifying questions, and thanks in advance for any help.

::edit::

i realize i forgot to mention how im set up.

i have the ndlr connected to my computer via usb and am using that to send/receive information with fl studio. i do have several other hardware synths...but everything is controlled by and runs through fl studio via midi din into a presonus audiobox which is then going into my computer via usb.

sorry if im not explaining things correctly...im still trying to get a handle on all this midi and hardware stuff.

RE: using vst sequencer to control ndlr in fl studio - Jesse Johannesen - 02-16-2021

Hey this sounds like a fun project. I don't personally know anything about FL studio, but someone else here is bound to have had some experience with it. If you don't get any help here, you may want to try a thread in the fruity loops forum (if such a thing exists).
Another option for getting some really interesting material out of the NDLR is to use the ModMatrix and use Patterns as LFO shapes and send those to parameters such as Motif Pattern, Chord Degree, Rhythm, Clock Div etc. You can then open the Pattern editor and edit the patterns that control all these parameters live. Not exactly what you are trying to accomplish, but I really get a lot of satisfaction out of that kind of Meta Sequencing of the NDLR.

RE: using vst sequencer to control ndlr in fl studio - chaoswyrm - 02-17-2021

thnx for the reply.

i still havent figured out how to do what im trying to do....though i have made a bit of headway...maybe?

i was able to get the vst to pass on midi information to the ndlr, unfortunately...i havent been able to figure out how to isolate that information. fl studio has this odd "feature" where selecting an instrument steals focus away from other things that are playing. i have turned that off (out of necessity), but what turning it off does is make it so if i have the sequencer selected it doesnt pass midi at all...but if i have nothing selected...it will pass midi to all ports and all channels.

so...not working yet...but at least i have confirmed that it is possible to send the midi info at all.

baby steps.

and im very much looking forward to trying out the modmatrix possibilities...but imma hold off on that until im more comfortable with the basics. =)

for now...ill just use the deluge to randomize until i can figure it out.

while were on the subject....does anyone know the behavior of the ndlr when it receives multiple note msgs simultaneously? id rather not have to set each probability individually if i dont have to. if i simply keep everything at 100% how does the ndlr decide which one it will use? as of right now...if i do that...it will randomize notes for a short time...and then it just plays the same note over and over, and as of right now, im not sure if the deluge is making that happen or the ndlr.

RE: using vst sequencer to control ndlr in fl studio - MrBlaschke - 02-17-2021

Hi you two Smile

This sounds interesting and i am ready to chime in.. BUT: I know nothing, except from its name, about FL Studio.
My base is on iOS with some external Hardware stuff.

To answer your last question i did set up a quick test and it looks like the NDLR responds to the highest note in a pack of simultaneously send notes of the bunch that fit the matching criteria.

RE: using vst sequencer to control ndlr in fl studio - House de Kris - 02-17-2021

Not sure if I should butt in here or not, but what is meant by simultaneous MIDI notes? MIDI is a serial bus and can transmit only one note at a time. When using a sequencer, and multiple notes/messages are intended to be send at the same instant, something must arbitrate the serialization of these notes/messages to be sent down the pipe one at a time. Could be the program, the OS, or the physical interface - I have no idea.

As far as the NDLR is concerned, I presume it's the last note sent which prevails. Thus, if the arbitrator has a 'lowest note has priority' mentality, it probably sends the highest note last. Which would be the last thing NDLR hears as far as commands, hence highest note wins.

If I've missed the point of the comments earlier, please excuse this intrusion.

RE: using vst sequencer to control ndlr in fl studio - Jesse Johannesen - 02-18-2021

(02-17-2021, 01:04 PM)House de Kris Wrote: Not sure if I should butt in here or not, but what is meant by simultaneous MIDI notes? MIDI is a serial bus and can transmit only one note at a time. When using a sequencer, and multiple notes/messages are intended to be send at the same instant, something must arbitrate the serialization of these notes/messages to be sent down the pipe one at a time. Could be the program, the OS, or the physical interface - I have no idea.

As far as the NDLR is concerned, I presume it's the last note sent which prevails. Thus, if the arbitrator has a 'lowest note has priority' mentality, it probably sends the highest note last. Which would be the last thing NDLR hears as far as commands, hence highest note wins.

If I've missed the point of the comments earlier, please excuse this intrusion.

I'm, pretty sure Kris is right about this, there isn't really a 'simultaneous' when the device reading the key presses is operating in the MHz range, so what to us feels like a single moment is time for a literal million events to occur and be dealt with in order. I think it should be the last note received that the NDLR 'settles' on as long as we're talking about the NDRL Ctrl channel.

Jesse

(02-17-2021, 01:04 PM)House de Kris Wrote: Not sure if I should butt in here or not, but what is meant by simultaneous MIDI notes? MIDI is a serial bus and can transmit only one note at a time. When using a sequencer, and multiple notes/messages are intended to be send at the same instant, something must arbitrate the serialization of these notes/messages to be sent down the pipe one at a time. Could be the program, the OS, or the physical interface - I have no idea.

As far as the NDLR is concerned, I presume it's the last note sent which prevails. Thus, if the arbitrator has a 'lowest note has priority' mentality, it probably sends the highest note last. Which would be the last thing NDLR hears as far as commands, hence highest note wins.

If I've missed the point of the comments earlier, please excuse this intrusion.

RE: using vst sequencer to control ndlr in fl studio - chaoswyrm - 02-19-2021

hmmm......interesting.

so, when my sequencer (in this case the deluge), sends a chord...which to me looks like 3 notes triggering simultaneously...youre saying they arent?

ok, i didnt know that. still the question remains....how is the order determined? i set them all on the same step...they should be simultaneous, if they cant be...something has to decide the order. it sounds like the sequencer has to decide the order its going to send them in.

this doesnt address my initial question, but using the deluge and note probabilities is a suitable workaround for now.

RE: using vst sequencer to control ndlr in fl studio - House de Kris - 02-20-2021

Yes, it is indeed true. A chord may look like three notes start simultaneously, it may sound that they start simultaneously, but the data truly trickles down the cable one command at a time. Like turn on a note, or turn it off.

I have a deluge, too. So I made some simple chords and monitored the MIDI data coming out it. With a fresh clip set to MIDI channel 1, I placed a C-E-G chord in the fourth beat for a quarter note each. Ran it multiple times, always was transmitted in C4, E4, and G4 order. The note off commands came in the same order. Didn't matter which order I hit the pads when entering the notes on the grid, it was always C4, E4, and G4. OK, looks like a lower number priority scheme is used to determine who goes first.

Next, I had just a single C4 on ch1, then put another C4 at exactly the same spot on ch2. This time it sent ch2 C4 followed by ch1 C4. I added another MIDI channel with a C at the same beat as the others. This time it sent ch3 C4, ch2 C4, and then ch1 C4. From this, I jump to the conclusion that higher order MIDI channels have priority when being transmitted.

I'm sorry, but I'm not exactly clear on what your question is precisely. I can tell you that for generative stuff, I use probability in the deluge to control the NDLR. For me, this works great. How to get various pieces of software to play together nicely is beyond me.